The Giving Garden® Loyalty Program

The Giving Garden® Podcast Episode 6 with Georgi Enthoven

Click the image below to listen to Episode 6 with special guest, Georgi Enthoven, International Thought Leader, Entrepreneur, and Founder of Work That’s Worth It. For a full transcript, scroll further down.

Full transcript of Episode 6

Martina Halloran: Welcome to The Giving Garden Podcast where we explore how small acts of giving can blossom into lasting change. I'm your host, Martina Halloran, founder of The Giving Garden and CEO of Dr. Hauschka Skin Care USA. In each episode, we highlight the power of giving, whether it's time, kindness, or resources, and how these acts can transform both lives in whole communities. Join me as we explore the ripple effect of giving and its lasting impact.

Today, we're joined by someone whose life reads like a global love letter to impact, Georgi Enthoven. From her roots in South Africa to boardrooms across the world, Georgi has pursued one question with unshakable clarity. What makes work truly worth it? She's an entrepreneur, global citizen, and the visionary behind work that's worth it, a podcast, a book, and a movement helping people align their careers with their deepest values. Through her own winding journey from Silicon Valley Tech to social entrepreneurship in Mexico, Georgi has discovered that fulfillment doesn't come from climbing ladders, but from building bridges between who we are and how we serve.

In this episode, Georgi shares the pivotal experiences that shaped her path, the mentors and moments that lit the way, and how giving, not just money or time, but of ourselves, is often the most powerful form of work there is. So settle in and prepare to be inspired by our conversation on courage, contribution, and the adventure of becoming. Georgi, welcome to The Giving Garden Podcast.

Georgi Enthoven: Oh, so nice to be here. And I have to say that might be the nicest and or most interesting introduction I have ever had. Thank you.

Martina Halloran: Well, you have had an interesting journey. For our audience and our listeners who don't know, I had the unbelievable privilege of being on Georgie's podcast not so long ago. And we found that we had some very, very similar and shared values. And it just made sense to continue the conversation and to have a more robust conversation about the work that you're doing, Georgi. So we're excited and I wanna jump right in.

Your journey really began with a search for personal fulfillment. What was that kind of inflection point that you realized that professional success just wasn't working?

Georgi Enthoven: For me, there were signs all along the way of the journey that I wasn't getting everything that I was looking for. And I am the kind of person who pretty good is not necessarily enough. I really want to feel, like, get goosebumps and feel chills about what I'm doing and get excited. And I don't mean every day and all day, but I want to have that feeling frequently. And so when I graduated from college, I really wanted to do good in the world.

My only real job criteria was to live in San Francisco. And I had a really hard time finding things that I could do good and meet my ambition. And so I let go of the doing good and followed the ambition piece and got gobbled up by the tech industry, which was booming, and that's where a lot of the entry level jobs were, and started climbing that ladder. And pretty much from the beginning of that, what I ended up doing is volunteering on the side and filling in the soul piece in a after work, in between work, quickly at lunch, whatever it was. I needed something more.

And I never put it together that you could actually have both income and impact or the ambition side, but also the soul fulfilment. And then I ended up living for ten years in Mexico City. My husband is from there, and we had our three children there. And at that time, I really reevaluated work and I switched to very much impact work. I was mostly doing these project based work because I was I had three small children and I fit in what I, what I could.

But what I noticed is I was getting paid so little for that work that it felt also not sustainable. It felt like I could go and do a project, but it was not something that I could dedicate a lot, a lot of my time to ongoing. And so I zigzagged from this point of ambition and income and really corporate ladder to climb up, which was exciting in many ways, and then flipped completely to impact, which felt incredibly heartfelt and soulful. But I still needed to be rewarded. And it was only later that I started to meet people who were doing both.

And there's definitely a large emerging category. But I didn't know about companies like yours. And when I graduated, there weren't a lot of opportunities. Like Ben and Jerry's would be like a flagship company that we would have known about at that time. Today, there are a lot of opportunities.

And for me, it was really starting to piece together these incredible role models for me that were able to combine both income and impact. Or like I like to use the words in my book, or to have a meaningful contribution and to be compensated for that contribution.

Martina Halloran: For you to have the courage to keep looking and to continue to be curious, young people, there's so much pressure and they have to give up sometimes on those ideas of impact because of the lack of compensation. There's so much pressure that at certain inflection points that you should see or realize a certain level of success, whatever that looks like. And that pressure is coming from all different places. But it did take me a long time in my professional career to come to a space that allowed for this impact work and allowed for this value proposition work while still being compensated and still being able to do

Georgi Enthoven: the things in life that are necessary. Like we need financial compensation. You're so right. And I have been meeting with and talking to and digging into what is happening on college campuses, because all the young people that I talked to are still facing the same dilemma. And one of the things that is just a big obstacle to getting young people to even know what options there are is who pays for recruiting on college campuses.

So it's expensive to recruit on college campuses. And the same types of companies are the ones that own that landscape. And what makes that difficult is young people are not exposed to a broader range of opportunities. And from the college perspective, they need the income from the companies recruiting. They also want to get jobs filled early as possible because career centers office is measured on how many of the college kids are graduating with a job.

And so as you and I know, most companies post a job when you need the job filled. And you're not looking nine months out. And so what happens is the colleges, so they're incented financially, they're incented on the numbers, and they also are incented on the pay scale. And so if they can get people in jobs early as possible at the highest wage, that helps their rankings. You had talked about this idea of knowing what you care about and knowing what you're interested in and having passion.

I have yet to meet somebody young who doesn't already know something they care about. And we just don't ask the right questions. But even if we do ask the right questions, we have a whole bunch of incentives to try and get over or change or even show another path where young people can see a broader selection of opportunities.

Martina Halloran: It's very counterintuitive for a parent or a caregiver to say, we've spent all this money, we've made this investment because people see going to university, going to college as a major investment, especially in The United States. Then how do we see a return on that investment? The structure return on investment doesn't necessarily need to be financial. Is this young person, are they well adjusted? Are they happy?

Are they a contributing person in our society and not just going to work and being a financial contributor to the economic system that we live in? Investment can be measured in a multitude of ways, not just this financial return perspective. That's a big pressure outside of the college environment or university environment that a lot of young people are facing is that pressure of where's the return on investment of all this money just spent.

Georgi Enthoven: Yeah. You are so right. And I just heard from somebody who works at a career center in a prestigious college in The US and said the number one stress of the students is that they're not going to succeed. They're living with that fear. And we put so much fear even to get into college.

And then during college, they're looking to maximize their returns versus grow and think explore and be curious about education. That's what The US offers so well. But because it's so expensive to go to college, so many people are really focused on what their return is. And so even picking classes, it's about what is the return on investment. And then getting out of college, they feel enormous stress.

And especially now, like the workforce is changing in front of our eyes and the classes that are graduating, it feels scary.

Martina Halloran: The layers of things that young people are up against in terms of trying to step out into the world, build themselves a career, will my job be secure? I've heard from many young people, they're always gonna be the first to go because somebody doesn't necessarily see their value added. And that's unfortunate because young people have such a beautiful lens and perspective. And there's an inspiring factor with young people because sometimes they don't know the cause and effect of things. And that's okay because it's so fresh and it's so honest.

Their perspective on situations, their perspective on bodies of work, it's very fresh because they don't have all the baggage that let's say we might have, because we've worked at many companies, we've done different projects, we've seen the outcomes. There's an element and a layer of that, that every company needs. Young people with that lens of curiosity can bring so much to an organization and so much depth in terms of really changing how people think or how they might expect an outcome on a project or a deal. And that value proposition should be rewarded.

Georgi Enthoven: What we're expecting of people has become significantly more. I love talking to you because we share a common appreciation for the Gen Z I really just appreciate how you embrace that wonder. And they're very resourceful. They're way more resourceful than my generation. And you can see it just even like within the meeting, like how quickly they're gathering the research, figuring it out, doing the next steps.

Sometimes when you've been doing something for a long time, you get a little more rigid. And so I love that you embrace that.

Martina Halloran: And being rigid is exhausting. I'll tell you. I mean, I was rigid for so many years in my career, and this is the way we do it, and this is why we do it, and this is how we do it. As you progress in your career, I think it's really important to know what you know and know what you don't know. It's okay not to know everything because it leaves a space for curiosity.

It leaves a space for wanting to read and research. And I often will say, I know what I know. I know what I don't know. And I hired you. And we brought you on board because we believe in your capacity.

We believe in your capabilities. And if I'm gonna tell somebody what to do exactly how to do it, then why did we hire somebody? So I think leadership styles for people that really want to create space for work that's worth it has to evolve. Work that's worth it can happen everywhere. But when I walk into a meeting, the value add is I'm being heard, I'm being seen, I'm able to give feedback and the feedback is received.

Any organization can operate that way. You don't have to be a nonprofit to operate that way. You don't have to be a work for good, if you will, organization, because it goes back to how are you valuing someone's contribution.

Georgi Enthoven: You are so right. In my book, I interviewed one of the first employees at Patagonia. And one of the questions I asked him

Martina Halloran: was What a great company.

Georgi Enthoven: I know. We're talking about like an icon. I asked him, are there examples in your company where somebody has had an idea who's not necessarily like a leader in the company, and you've been able to implement that idea for change, for positive change? And he gave a really great example. And this is going to take us a little far back.

But there was somebody who was managing their catalogue business. And back in the day before we had the internet for everything. It was catalogue. It was catalogues. We shopped out of catalogues.

Anyway, this particular person had an idea and a desire to see if they could print the catalog on recycled paper. And the company said to her, Listen, if you can find the same quality that we produce, because Patagonia was really about quality on everything that they did, but they also have these beautiful photographs and sort of take you into an experience when you are looking at any of their materials still today. And she was able to find the right quality paper. And what was so interesting is it changed their company and how they did it, but it changed the whole industry. And so sometimes people often say to me like, where do I go if I want a job with impact?

You just stay where you are and you see the impact that you can have, especially now in times that are changing. You just have to have the curiosity and an idea. One of the most exciting things that I've experienced over the last three years writing a book and starting a podcast is really coming to the appreciation that I am completely willing to be a beginner. And I am newly in my 50s. And to be able to be a beginner feels so empowering.

If you're willing to be a beginner, you can go do anything. And it really just starts with a question, as you said, sort of the question or curiosity of what if, or how could this work? And that has sort of really been what's behind my work is this question quest to find opportunities where people can feel connected to their work on a soul level, but also be compensated for their work so that they can last, the average career is ninety thousand hours, so they say. And that's a long time. And how do

Martina Halloran: we get these

Georgi Enthoven: really care to make change, to be positive influences in the world, to last a long time in their career. And we do that when they're compensated. And so I'm on this quest to find a broader spectrum of opportunities for people and show them these pathways and role models. I'm not an expert in this. I just have a great curiosity about this topic.

Martina Halloran: I love that word, you're on a quest. That says curiosity and wonder all in one word. And it's exciting to think that at different inflection points in your career, ninety thousand hours is a long time. If you're gonna be in it for the long game and you wanna have a sense of wonder and you wanna find that joy, part of your five values are contribution, adventure, courage, curiosity, and connection. In order to do work that's meaningful to you or impact work or work that drives your passion and inspires you, you have to have courage.

Defining success on my terms has enabled me to be inspired every day, to find the joy in my work, and to really maintain my courage. The courage to do what is right for me versus what an industry is asking me to do or telling me to do, or what society is encouraging you to do. So how does the idea of contribution, adventure, courage, curiosity, and connection, how does that all work?

Georgi Enthoven: When I got certified in coaching before I wrote my book, I had to do these values exercises. And it was a big moment for me because I feel like I'm somebody who would have claimed I lived by my values, and I never had words for them. And I just found that kind of shocking in my forties, trying to figure out what my values were for the first time to actually put words on them and really see if they resonate. And it's such an easy exercise to do. I mean, you can basically Google 50 top values, and you find different categories and sort of place words in different buckets, let's say five different buckets, and then pick the word that sort of surfaces as the title of that bucket.

And that's what I did to get three to five values. But there's many different ways to find your values. What is interesting is so many people will say, I want a job that matches my values. And you say, great, what are those values? Well, you know, something that's doing good.

We don't really put words to our values. And once you do, it's really clear if you're using them. And I look at my list of values and I use them every day. So I know these ones are really at the heart of how I'm making decisions and prioritizing. Courage, I think, is so interesting, especially in the space that I'm interested in, because it often involves the courage to go against the grain.

Especially when it comes to business. And you're talking about successful business leaders climbing the ladder and running these big companies. And business can be an incredible force for good. And we have the flexibility to make changes quickly, to have large impacts in society. It takes courage to not only be looking out for shareholder value.

And sometimes shareholder value increasing is exactly juxtaposed with what's actually good for the use of the business or the technology. And it really takes an ethical leader or somebody who is willing to paint that picture of why it's more important to include this ethical aspect to the business they are doing. And that is difficult. And it takes somebody quite special to be able to hold that space. And I just went to a conference and listened to the CEO of Oura Ring, thinking about all the data that they have.

They have a lot of data, so they can even tell if somebody is pregnant, if they've had a miscarriage. And with the FDA, they can't release that information unless they get, you know, go through a long process with the FDA of like how certain they are that this is the case so that they can actually give that information. But they're sitting with tonnes of ethical dilemma information on people. And they have to sort through that all the time. And so that's just one example of where, if you're in charge of a company, you are going to be faced with moments that are, it's like the fine tooth comb of really what your values are about.

And you're gonna have to sort through that. And that's not a gut decision, an instinct, one right answer. It takes time. And it takes commitment to really think through the short term, the medium term, the long term. So the word courage, I don't think we get to escape.

I think especially as you become more successful, the amount of courage you need to take on becomes increasingly greater.

Martina Halloran: Courage and connection for me are so important that they walk hand in hand because to really stand in your values, to really stand in what you believe in takes courage and it can often be very lonely. So the connection piece when you're trying to do work or participate in work that's worth it, if you will, because I love that line. So thank you, Georgie. When you stand in that space, you're often alone. And building that community, building that connection of like minded people who maybe don't necessarily care about the same issues you care about, but have the same moral compass.

It really is about how am I navigating myself? Do I have a moral compass? And do the people around me share in that? Because if not, then you end up being alone. And in my experience, that's when I have seen people fold and lose their courage and fall back into the status quo, because sometimes it's lonely to stand in a space of courage.

And connection is so important, not just from a leadership role, but from an organizational role of people feeling really not just connected to the work, but connected to each other. Because you're all being fueled by this desire to do the right thing. And that creates common ground. Doing work that matters is grounded in sharing the same value system and wanting to align your personal resource, all the skills that you bring to the table to meet that value structure and move the business forward.

Georgi Enthoven: One of the things that I discovered while writing my book is having a shared value system is so important. But on the flip side of that, finding people with different perspectives and bringing different perspectives with shared values is really where the magic happens. I was talking to a friend of mine who does venture capital and focusing on impact in Latin America. And she said that the deals where only one person saw the benefit of the company are their biggest success stories. So when everybody agreed they may do okay, it's where one person was the outlier and said, this is it, guys.

And so they allowed in their business model to not always have consensus because they saw those opportunities be the most successful. And so I love that example because a shared value system is really at the core. Like working where you don't have a shared value system, you're gonna figure out pretty quickly because you're gonna be asked to do something that really feels misaligned with who you are. And you're gonna struggle with that. And guess what?

You have to sit with that at home and for the next months, and it's gonna eat at you. But finding people who think differently than you, who have had different lives than you, is really exciting. And it actually makes coming to work and having the connection interesting because you don't know everything about them. Surrounding yourself by tons of people who are just like you is not the formula. And so sometimes people confuse values and perspective.

And when they think of common values, they think of that everybody needs to be the same and have the same thought process. But that's not it. They just need to care deeply about the same way of being. But the perspective is different. The journey is different.

How you arrive at decisions, how you've got there, what your past is all different.

Martina Halloran: Because we're all unique human beings. We really are. And that lens of authenticity and that lens of how somebody is approaching the world, just the world, not even the work, and really creates the space for really good discourse. Because if we were all the same, it'd be really, really boring. There would be no adventure.

That's one of your top five values. There would absolutely be no adventure if we were all the same. So the idea of contribution, adventure, courage, curiosity, and connection. Can you share a little bit more with our listeners on how this really reflects your life's journey up into this point? And also what do you see in the future for what you're doing and what you're building right now?

Georgi Enthoven: I've been on this quest to figure out, you know, can people have a successful career and also feel fulfilled, essentially? And I didn't know what the outcome would be or how hard it would be to find these role models. Like, I was willing to go find the needle in the haystack. What was surprising is it didn't take a lot of digging. I find a lot of these people quite readily.

And so this is what I'm really optimistic about, is there are lots of opportunities. There are a lot of things to care about in the world. There are lot of big problems we need to solve in our local communities and globally. And so first, what's exciting is that there are so many opportunities. Before we talk today, I was just writing a list of sort of what I've heard people say, including you, about the work that they're doing.

And I just wanted to share that because I just It's something that you don't often hear when people talk about their work. But these are the kinds of things I hear people say. I love what I do. I'm proud of what I do. I love coming back from vacation.

I look forward to Mondays. I love the challenge of my work. And I would do this for free. Those kind of statements are not coming from like the needle in the haystack. It's coming from pretty much everybody that I find who is values oriented or focused on a contribution in their career.

That for me is just really exciting because it's not you have to do good, the world needs you, and the burden failing. But actually, when you find the formula that works for you, your day job becomes part of your life adventure. It's not I have to do this so that I get to do the other fun stuff on my vacation or after work. But your day job is what also invigorates you and gets you excited. I'm so excited about what I'm doing that it was okay to get through.

I had the North Star. I had the vision of really what I wanted to achieve. And I was so excited about what I was uncovering. But I think what you have been mentioning through this interview is this word connection. And that's really where I am hoping to go next is how do I bring people together that have this shared sense of curiosity, adventure, connection, value system that are in all different industries, but really need each other to keep grounded during the difficult times where they do need courage, but also to level each other up.

They say you're the average of your five friends. And like a really quick step is sort of who are those five people? And do you want to be the average of them? And it's not just friends. It's like the five people you're spending the most time with in your life.

And often those are the people at work.

Martina Halloran: Oh my gosh, I've never heard that before.

Georgi Enthoven: Yeah, that's not mine. But I do include it in the book. But that is such an easy quick step for somebody to take when you're thinking of like, who's my average? Make sure the people in your life are the ones that are really inspiring you and getting you closer to that fulfillment or that excitement or that joy where you are getting goosebumps of like, this is magical.

Martina Halloran: And I think challenged because my five, they'll give it to me straight. They'll they'll they'll tell me all about myself. And And you need that. You need that grounding. And then it just keeps moving in such a phenomenal way of this connection that leads to inspiration, this inspiration that leads to action.

Georgi Enthoven: Living authentically and fulfilling your interest and pursuing your interest becomes interesting. And if you are not interesting and excited about the life that you're living, it's going to be harder and harder to compete. And especially So that is like one of the things that I would part with anyone young or parents of people young, keep the curiosity and the creativity and the adventure on full force, because it's going to become a really different work world. And if we can't bring our human aspect into whatever situation it is, we won't win. And so you're going to have to lean into your own essence to be able to shine and bring magic to whatever you do.

Martina Halloran: What a great statement. You lean into your own essence, which brings me to the last question. We talk a lot about career because that is a lot of the work you're doing of helping people move forward in their career and and doing work that's worth it. For those seeking a career that blends fulfillment and impact, what advice would you offer? And what would you hope listeners take away from your story today?

Georgi Enthoven: In my book, I talk about seven sort of key pillars of all the people that I interviewed that seem to have these different aspects of the career. But I would say three to start with. First, really understanding your capabilities. Perspective is one of them. Values is a part of this.

Your passion could be a part of this. But it's not just what's on your resume, but what are you bringing to the table that allows you to have an advantage? In this particular piece, I spent a lot of my early career leveling up weaknesses. Like, I'm not great at Excel. Well, I'm going to focus fully on Excel.

And there is some leveling up you need to do. But when you spend your time focusing all your energy on the weaknesses, you're not spending it on your gifts, your strengths, your advantages. So I would say identify early on really where you have advantages and keep paying attention to that throughout your career. And focus and get more and more emphasis on where you shine. The second is what is the contribution you're going to make?

And you've mentioned a lot the word purpose. And sometimes I find the word purpose feels too daunting for people. So the way that I think about it is what do you really care about? And what could you make your personal mission that you could tie in as the thread through work? And if you are starting out or, you know, no matter what stage you are at work, but wanting to have a contribution in your life, it can start with one word or even two words.

So it could be the environment in Mexico, let's say. And that is what you need to bring into the work that you're doing right there and then, or go pursue it or volunteer in it or whatever. But start bringing those threads in. And then the people who I interviewed often had these bold declarations, which are sort of the advanced version of a personal mission. But they would say things like, I will end homelessness in my generation.

And even just hearing them say these things, like, felt so bold and brave. But guess what? The world aligns around you when you can be bold and brave. And now everyone, when they think about ending homelessness, they know you're the person. And so they come to you, they bring you opportunities.

The press are more excited about somebody who's bold and can make a big declaration. Investors are more excited. So don't be afraid to make a bold declaration. And it allows you the space to really fill your greatest potential. And the third piece that I say is really important is compensation.

I'll tell you this from two sides. One is I have in the work that I do, I have these different personas that people play different parts of their career. One is the unrewarded do gooder. And that is somebody who's working incredibly hard, doing amazing work for the world, but unfulfilled on compensation. They're not being rewarded for the work that they're doing.

And so what happens to those people is they stop doing the work. So it could be a teacher who is incredibly good and gifted at teaching, but feels very burnt out about, you know, what they're having to carry versus what they're receiving for it. So learning how to receive for the work that you're doing is so important. And it's not just income. You had mentioned all sorts of other aspects earlier in our conversation, but it could be working with some amazing role model.

It could be working in like the beautiful environment that you've created at work. And I'm imagining like, you know, this old church and a field with fresh flowers around you and just arriving at work feeling really different than a corporate, like concrete building. So there are many different ways to understand your compensation. But from the unrewarded do gooder, make sure that you are able to receive for your good work. And often the block is internal, and you not feeling like for this good work, you should be paid.

Yes, you should. There are ways to do it, especially when you open that up internally. And then the flip of that is what I call the uninspired achiever. And that's the person who's climbing the ladder. We talked about that person before who really doesn't even know why they're going on that ladder.

But it was the ladder that was supposedly the hardest to get, and they are winning at climbing that ladder. And I have talked to so many of those people, especially classmates of mine from Harvard Business School, and so many of them said to me, Georgie, I hate what I do. The worst was, I'm embarrassed what I do. And what was consistent about those people, they say, now I can't get off the ladder because now my expenses require me to live this life. And I've got, you know, I would love to get off the ladder, but I can't.

And so that felt really sad for me. And it's definitely not the ladder that I want to be climbing. But getting the off ramp off that is hard. In one of my interviews on my podcast, I interviewed somebody who had this theory of the enough number. And having that conversation with yourself when you are somebody climbing this ladder, like, I understand if, you know, Martina, you have talked to me about coming from a childhood where you were not financially secure.

We don't know what everybody is dealing with. So climbing up that ladder could mean financial security for somebody, and that's very meaningful. But where is the point where you may feel like you could step off that ladder and go and consider a broader array of opportunities for yourself where you could feel fulfilled and you could do your magic? And having that conversation, I think, is really important along the way. And just noticing how caught up you are on continuing to be in the ladder.

And one quick example of that is I have somebody in my network who sells mortgages. And what the mortgage company does is on Friday, give you like the bait to go get one more, go get another one. And so what happens is you continue to work all weekend because you want to be the number one performer and maintain your spot as the number one performer. And choosing that over spending time with your family. And that becomes addictive.

But I think we

Martina Halloran: need to spend absolutely.

Georgi Enthoven: Yeah, you need to take time to really consider what is important to you. And that's why the internal work takes time and is worth that time. But it does require the time on either both sides, the unordered do gooder or the uninspired achiever. And ultimately you get to what I call the disruptor for good, where you're able to work in a situation like you are, where you have a contribution you're making to the world, but being compensated for it. And you feel invigorated and your creativity has a place to shine and explore and you feel good about the work you do.

Martina Halloran: Georgie, thank you. This has been an incredible conversation from a heartfelt space. I hope it's not our last conversation. I hope we get to spend a little time together, maybe in a different forum, but this has been wonderful. I know our listeners are gonna absolutely lean in and dig in.

You've made some really important points. And I think you've shared such a great body of work that people can maybe take a step back and pause and reflect about where they are and how they're gonna move forward. So thank you.

Georgi Enthoven: Yeah. I just love the conversation too. Thank you so much.

Martina Halloran: Thank you for listening to The Giving Garden Podcast. I hope you're leaving inspired because even the smallest act can spark positive change. If you've enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to like, subscribe, and share. The Giving Garden Podcast is produced by Edwin Batista and edited by Steven West. A special thanks to Helen Pelosi for her guidance and generosity.

The Giving Garden Podcast is brought to you by Dr. Hauschka Skin Care USA, pioneers in natural skincare for over fifty years and home to The Giving Garden Loyalty Program. Visit DrHauschka.com to learn more.