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The Giving Garden® Podcast Season 2 Episode 8 with Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon and Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez

Click the image below to listen to Season 2 Episode 8 with special guests, Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon and Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez of Brujas of Brookyln. For a full transcript, scroll further down.

Full transcript of Season 2 Episode 8

Martina Halloran: In this episode of The Giving Garden podcast, we are joined by the Brujas of Brooklyn. Identical twin sisters, Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Salomon and Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez, Known affectionately as the Doctoras, Professors, Yogis and Brujas, these remarkable women have dedicated their lives to helping people reconnect with their power, heal intergenerational wounds, and cultivate joy as a pathway towards collective well-being. As professors within the City University of New York system, certified yoga instructors, authors, and facilitators, they blend academic rigor with ancestral practices to create transformative spaces for healing and growth.

Their work has been featured by organizations and platforms including ABC, NPR, Univision, Google, Facebook,

Martina Halloran: numerous cultural and education institutions. Through workshops, speaking engagements, and their own community centered practice, they have become powerful voices for healing, self-discovery, and empowerment, particularly within communities of color. One phrase that has stayed with me since our first conversation is this, joy as a form of resistance. It is a simple statement, yet one that carries profound wisdom. In a world that often asks us to move faster, do more, carry heavier burdens, choosing joy can feel almost revolutionary.

It becomes a way of protecting our spirit, nurturing our humanity, and refusing to allow hardship to have the final word. As we move through the warmth and abundance of summer, I can think of no better conversation to have than one centered on joy, healing, and the ways we can remain connected to ourselves and one another. So settle in, take a deep breath, and join us for a thoughtful and inspiring conversation with the Brujas of Brooklyn as we explore the beautiful idea of joy as a form of resistance. Dr. Griselda, Dr. Miguelina, welcome back to The Giving Garden podcast. I was sharing earlier that the idea as joy as resistance or joy as a form of resistance, that stuck with me from our last conversation. It was so powerful. It moved something in me. And then after that, I kept hearing this in all of these different places and different spaces from really disparate people, people that were not connected in any way.

And then I thought about how powerful this idea is and fundamentally that it's available to everyone. So what I wanted to really ask some questions because it seems powerful, but it seems very nuanced and layered. And can you share with me and our listeners what this concept first meant to each of you personally? Because it's so powerful, and I would love to understand some of the origins of it.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: For me, it was the pandemic. That's when, like, the language was introduced because we have all exercised joy as a form of resistance. Not all, but many people have exercised joy as a form of resistance when we've gone through some really tough times. I really got the language during the pandemic. Not only do we have this global pandemic, but then the boroughs of Brooklyn, we go viral because we're having conversations around colorism, racism.

It was with George Floyd and Breonna Taylor. Like, it was just a very hot time in the world. And we were being pulled in many directions like, we want to interview you. We want you on our podcast. We want to do this.

We were feeling a little overwhelmed. And then we were also seeing so many like people rightfully so waking up, their social consciousness being activated, and they're marching on the street and Black Lives Matter, right? And all of that is important, but we also felt a lot of anger. Some of that anger was directed towards us. Just people commenting, right?

You go viral. And my sister and I really had to remember that we had to keep joy at the center of things or we would fall apart. And even though one way that I practiced joy was my yoga practice. We were practicing hard during the height of the pandemic and we were doing it in community. I'll be a virtual, but it was still a community and that would bring me and I could assume Griselda so much joy.

So again, I think the language for me was really introduced like, June, July 2020, but it's something that we have been doing, our ancestors have been doing for a long time.

Martina Halloran: I think what's so powerful and so beautiful is that I think you're helping people articulate it. Because I do think people are using joy or have joy as a form of resistance, and they may not even know that that's what it is. I think you've really been able to beautifully help people articulate what it is. Therefore, they can probably do more of it or find more of it or actively cultivate it. In a world where stress, burnout, grief, uncertainty has become so normalized, it almost feels like people are a little numb to these things that are happening.

Why do you believe choosing joy can actually be a radical act of resistance?

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: When I hear you list just the realities of the world we're living in today, I can't help but think about these are just continuations of states of being that humans have been enduring or being put under for hundreds of years. Like, my sister and I, because of the work we do as social scientists, we look a lot at history and how history informs the present. And for me, 1492 was like a benchmark. In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue. It had already been in the works, but it was the spark of this system of supreme dehumanization if you were a woman, if you were not of European descent, right, if you were queer, etcetera.

And part of the aspect of being dehumanized is severing the person from their sense of self, whether it's through religion, whether it's through, like, just physically removing a person from, like, their homeland or their family. And for us, our ancestors, in addition to all of that, were also robbed of joy because they were overworked or they were under supreme stress. Why am I saying this? Because then when we fast forward to all the things you listed in the beginning of the question, it's just like it's it's a a remnant of what our ancestors have had to endure. And if you notice some of the traditions that we hold on to as people of color, as immigrants, we often hold onto things like dance and music.

Music.

Martina Halloran: Dance, music, food.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: Those are the little microscopic forms of resistance that our ancestors were able to manifest that I think we can learn from them. And we do, like you said, subconsciously, a lot of people just don't have the language because if we continue to exist in a system that continues to dehumanize us in the sense of overworking us or having us believe that your worth is tied to productivity because it is a capitalist society, then embodying joy is so powerful and it's a form of resistance because you're existing in a way that this system says that you're not allowed to exist. And also biochemically, so much research comes out about how laughing and even smiling enacts some biochemical reactions, increasing dopamine and serotonin. So not only are you bucking the system, but you're also in a sense healing your body.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: I love the question and I love the route you took because, you know, I went a different route. I went more like modern times today. And I just pulled up, I posted something today on Instagram. I'll read it in a minute. You know, it's really important to cultivate joy, but it's not easy for a lot of people.

The hemming and the hawing and the complaining, right? We have social media platforms, and we assure you when we hem and we and we complain, we get a lot of likes.

Martina Halloran: Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: And when we're calling people, we have a a call to action. We're asking people to rise to the occasion, to change not as many hits. Right? Because I think that saying that misery loves company is very powerful. And it's not intentional.

Right? It's it's really activated in the subconscious. But those of us that actively engage with joy, right, we are cycle breakers because we interrupt patterns. Going back to what I shared today, this is talking about being around people activates these neurological patterns. First of all, if you complain a lot, those are patterns your brain is picking up on and it becomes normalized, right?

And it says, when someone around you normalizes overworking, chronic stress, emotional shutdown, poor sleep, or addictive coping, your nervous system registers that as safe. Not because it's healthy but because it's common. Right? And I think we show up with joy and honestly, I know Gri could attest to this when sometimes, let's say, one of our family members or friends are complaining about something for like the ninth year and we're like, okay. Like, let's revisit this.

Let's see how we could change this. How can you show up and create more joy? People clench their pearls. You know? Yes.

It's one thing human beings wanna be listened to, but then it's another thing where it's, like, it's beyond you just releasing pressure. It may be an addiction.

Martina Halloran: We've normalized that. I wanna be in grief. I wanna be emotionally dysfunctional or whatever those things are. And I think what has happened for a lot of people is we feel that we need to earn joy. It has to qualify in our life in some way.

And until we hit all of these benchmarks, then joy isn't available to us. Like, if you're taking agency over your emotional state of mind, then joy is available to you when you decide joy is available to you, not when somebody else says you've earned it.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: That's right. That's something I I know we touched on in the previous episode, but one of the powerful things about this call to action, this mantra, however we choose to frame joy as a source of resistance, joy as a form of resistance is that it's free and it's accessible. It's not something that can be packaged and consumed. And I know that that's one of the reasons why within these institutions of power, particularly the media, politics, education, they will go to great lengths to sell us the idea that joy is something that you have to earn. Because again, you know, I teach my students and I learn so much about how a society is very much shaped by the economical system.

Whether if the economy is doing good, great. If the economy's doing bad, then the collective feels bad. But beyond that, it's also we live in this economic paradigm, capitalism, that's about profit, and it's about sacrificing the short term for the long term. But sometimes we take that far, especially women and people of color, where we really feel like that survivor's guilt, and we are like, Well, I'm not gonna embody joy because my mother couldn't, or I'm not ready yet because I haven't earned enough money, or I haven't earned enough of a title in my career path to be able to feel safe and joy.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: And I think it also relates to outsourcing your emotions. That's a very capitalist thing. Out towards your emotion as a trained economist is like, let the market forces dictate not only your stocks but dictate your emotions because it, again, if the economy is doing well, then the vibe in general is one. If the economy is not doing well, like we are currently, then the vibe is a very different like lower vibrating one. So, it's it's really important to remind folks that it's difficult to say this because I don't want to feel like, I don't want anyone to feel like we're bulldozing over mental health issues because we're not But oftentimes joy like happiness are choices.

Martina Halloran: Yes.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: Obviously there's exceptions to this, but there are choices. And then when we say that to some people, they're like, oh, but you don't know my problems. You know, you don't know what I'm dealing with as if like when Griselda and I talk about joy and others talk about joy, we're like, la la la, everything's perfect. Usually, the most joyous people, I know for me, a lot of the joyous people that I know have had some real life happen to them. And, you know, we have to remind that because I think people see the, like, light and they feel the joy.

And Glee and I do our best to have a high vibration.

Martina Halloran: And then they think your life is perfect. There's this translation of it. Yep. It's like the world has said those small moments don't matter, but the small moments matter even more because that's where the joy is. You go outside and the sun is perfect and it's 70 and you feel a little chill, but the chill's a little warm and you're like, yes.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: Yes. Yes.

Martina Halloran: Or it's that coffee and you just go, god, that smell gets me every time. And I think when you are joyful, I do feel that it comes with a little guilt. People want to make you feel guilty. It takes strength to have joy. I know that sounds crazy because joy feels a little light and a little fun and a little adventurous and a little childhood wonder sometimes.

But there's a lot of guilt when people are measuring their lives against, you know, this economic structure of consumption. They're consuming content that is just unrealistic on social media. Everybody's perfect, and everybody has the best house, the best car, the best skin, the best you name it, they have it. And this idea that we're measuring so much of who we are against these expectations. So to put joy in the middle of that, people do feel like they need to earn it.

And joy, to your point, is accessible to everyone, and it's free. And yes, I think when people feel joyful, it either sparks people, other people, and they feel it and they're just like, okay, life isn't so heavy, or it makes a connection that really turns people off. I've seen it go either way in my space where people are just like, well, why is she so happy? And I don't think joy and happiness are the same thing. I think they're completely different.

Being joyful doesn't mean things aren't difficult. But I think that people confuse those things, and they're just like, well, she's being ignorant or she's not acknowledging. I've had to tell people, first of all, you're talking to a Mexican American woman. I know what's going on out there. I've raised an Afro Latino son.

I know what's going on out there. The world is difficult, difficult for us every single day, but I'm choosing to find the space in my life where there is joy. It can be a parallel situation. And I think that's what people struggle with, that your life can be difficult, but you can still have joy, and you should be allowed to have joy.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: You know, I don't think that this day and age, especially what you said earlier about social media and we're fed information in fifteen to thirty second tidbits, and everything seems so dichotomized. Yes. No. Good. Bad.

Republican. Democrat. Yeah. East. Red red states.

Blue states. A lot of people just can't hold nuance and a lot of people can't wrap their heads around that. You can be joyous and still be grieving. You can be joyous and still have problems. And two examples come to mind.

One of them that I shared in the last episode, right? December 2023, I'm putting up content of me putting up my Christmas tree and people coming for me on Instagram. Like, how can you when there's like a genocide in Palestine? How can you? And I'm like, because there's a genocide in Palestine, I'm putting up my Christmas tree cause I have the ability to be joyous and feel safe and I'm gonna live that fully.

That's unfortunately how a lot of people show up. Another way is one of our beloved aunts she was also a twin She passed away and then maybe like five or six days after the funeral, two of our best friends, you know, typical Latin American, Dominican, Puerto Rican customs like, oh, coming, how do you say like? Paying respect? Paying respect. It's like all sitting with us, paying respects.

We turned up. We drank. We danced. They showed up, like, at eight, 09:00, and they left at 05:00 in the morning. Just the four of us singing karaoke, singing, dancing.

Martina Halloran: That is probably the best example because I was thinking of that in my head. My second older sister passed very suddenly, and we were devastated. But when all the sisters got together, all of her other sisters, we were we were crying at first, but then we were laughing. We were thinking about all the insane things we did when we were kids that my mom never knew about. And we were laughing and crying.

And then, you know, and we're still mourning. And we would say, mommy would say, mommy would say, and we were just laughing. And there was so much joy in that. And that's such a great example because we were grieving and it was painful and it was deep, but we were still joyful in remembering them and those amazing times and those funny stories. And and that stays with me.

And I think for me that when my sister passed, it was my real understanding that you could truly live in both spaces. And it's not binary choice. To your point, people say good, bad, yes, no. And younger people in particular have a very difficult time living in the gray. I say that a lot because life is gray.

It's not black and white. There's a lot in the middle. And I think joy kind of lives in that space. You know, you could be really joyful. You can find a little joy.

You could be grieving, but still find joy. That to me is joy as a form of resistance.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: I mean, laughing at yourself is so good. It's so good.

Martina Halloran: So you've had these incredible journeys, and at some point, you realized survival alone was not enough, and that reclaiming joy is necessary for well-being and spirit. Were there any specific moments that you felt like this is a community effort? Joy is collective, whether it was grief or a gathering or a personal moment that said, I need other people, collective joy is even more powerful.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: Absolutely. For some reason, the first thing that comes to mind is one of our best friends, her ex husband's mother died, and they were Nigerian. And it's not necessarily like that we or I was in a sorrowful place, but it's about witnessing joy in a collective sense and how much relief it brings. So we are Dominican, Latin American, Catholic. We were raised to look at death as a very natural part of life, but very somber, very sad.

Right? And and as we speak, you know, I'm I'm getting chills because, right, going back to the nuance in the gray area, I love that also because at least in our our cosmologies, there's space to grieve death and endings, whereas in a more Western American stance, there's no ritualizing around death. Right? It's just like a funeral, the viewing, the person is buried. Unless you're like quote unquote from an ethnic background or African American, the general consensus in US popular culture is just like the person dies and then life moves on.

Whereas right? So we come from these cultures that that would yeah. There there's beautiful rituals on around death and grieving, but they tend to be very somber. And our best friend invited us to, I guess, the repast, like, after the funeral. And Mia Amiga went dressed in, like, grays and blacks.

All black. And we get there, and it's a it's a party. Right? Literally, like, we always have the story. They had these men going around with these little carts.

It was like a party, like, with round tables and centerpieces, and they will come around with, like, a portable bar asking you what dress you wanted. The music, me and Miguel danced, like, almost the whole night.

Martina Halloran: Oh, that's amazing.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: It was so much fun. And in the moment, I realized, and even in hindsight, that the collective joy that was embodied in that moment was a form of resistance to the way that death and grief around death could really consume somebody. When we talk about resistance, for me, I tend to often fixate on resistance from a structural level, like banging on the system. This is patriarchy and white supremacy, and it is that. But resistance is literally like resisting the wave of depression that could be around the corner and sustain joy.

Martina Halloran: Yes. I think people are able to understand that framework of resistance. Just kind of like when people are on health journeys or fitness journeys, they're resisting the temptation to do something that they know is gonna uproot their whole success plan. And I think it's the same with joy as a form of resistance because when you are grieving or you're in a a job transition or you're struggling as a parent, whatever the challenges that life is coming at you with, that idea of resisting the desire to fold so far within yourself that you've closed yourself off from the possibility of joy. And I too see resistances that way because I think people, they hear the statement, and it's so big to them.

And they think toxic positivity. They think, Martina, you're being unrealistic. And it really isn't that deep in a way. It's deep, but it's not that deep in terms of if you could resist a little bit to the world that's coming at you, you could find that joy and you can find it quickly. And I think when people hear me say that, because I think I've probably said it ad nauseam, but I have found such a place of joy since our last conversation of discovering moments of joy.

You know, I have a little French bulldog that brings me tremendous joy. You know, finding joy in different ways with spending with my son and my daughter-in-law and my grandson, and just this idea that they're small moments, those small moments matter. And I think that's what I mean when I say it's not that deep because people feel like they have to have this whole structured situation to be joyful when it could be as much as, oh my god, I love this tea. It was on sale. I get a little pep in my step going to my car after the grocery store.

And I think that people have made it such a big unattainable thing. It feels almost like social media when I'm when I'm conversing with people, because in social media, it's just like they're building it up. They're building it up. They're building it up. And then they're disappointed because they're expecting some big inflection point in their life when it doesn't have to be that big.

And those small steps build momentum.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: I just had to get something. So on that note, you know, I'm very big on, like, to your point, luxuriate your life. And people here luxuriate your life and they think like, you know, a luxury vehicle and expensive bags. And I'm like, I'm a coffee drinker. I drink coffee almost every day.

I'm gonna luxuriate it. So this is my greka. This is my mocha pot. Like a percolator. Like, you see it, and it's like I mean, I don't know.

Maybe folks aren't gonna be watching content, but if you're listening, it's a greka or a percolator, and the top is glass. It's super cute, super sexy. Imagine watching coffee coming up. Then this is where I drink my coffee. These are, like, my

Martina Halloran: mugs. Super Like real coffee cups. These are luxury coffee cups.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: Coffee mugs from the diners that Miga loves.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: I don't like those. Honestly, if I walk into an establishment and I see those really heavy white mugs, I won't order coffee because I'm serious, I'm not gonna enjoy it. I know it's like a texture thing. It's things like that. Like, my robes are colorful and they're bright.

And if there's something you do every day, like, luxuriating that, like, luxuriating your sleep, which is also important to joy because you need rest. And honestly, when you're rested, when you are navigating with less stress, you can see joy quicker. You can create joy.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: Yes. I wanted to just add on to this because I'm happy Miguel led with that caveat of like, I say luxuriate, and it doesn't mean like break the bank or give into mass consumption. I mean, that's your thing, we have girlfriends that will work a whole six months and save money and drop $3,000 on a Chanel bag. We don't judge. That's not that's not our cup of tea, you know, ironically, but if that brings that person joy, look, absolutely.

I think it's also important to play Sid, for my sister and I, and you too, Martina, being Latina, in the context of people that come from legacies of people that didn't have the privilege to have access to these things and the guilt that a lot of us navigate, and how easy it is to fall prey to the patterns of coping that you grew up around or you are around in your neighborhood or in your community that sometimes and this is a very personal anecdote in my own personal life. Not me personally, but I can see how sometimes people fall prey to going back to the hemming and the hawing and the lack mentality. That lack mentality is a thief of joy because some of us, when we come from economically impoverished backgrounds, immigrants, people that have legacies of enslavement and dehumanization, there's a subconscious sense of loyalty to those ways of coping and regulating emotionally that when we feel that we can break out of that loop and create new loops as cycle breakers, I've been in it, my sister has been in it, I see it in action with people close to me, it's almost like a drug.

But placing joy in the center of my life as resistance, that's new. That's almost unknown. That's not guaranteed. That could be toxic positivity, whatever the stories are. So sadly, a lot of people would rather stay, right, in states

Martina Halloran: of Yeah.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: Of conforming, chaos because it's comforting.

Martina Halloran: It's comfortable. It's what they know. I've worked with people who in entrepreneurial companies where it's chaos, And then they go to a company that's a little bit more well established, and they fall apart. They were incredible in the chaos. And then structure or doing something different, Some people thrive in the chaos.

Some people thrive in the perpetuation of this, always me. My life's not great. Oh, and it's it's easy. And it it brings me to this question of you said something really important about you have a friend who her form of joy is a little consumption. So how do you distinguish authentic joy from escapism or temporary distraction?

And there's a lot of joy in The Giving Garden. We're talking to a lot of people who are at the front lines of food insecurity, isolation, mental health struggles, environmental struggles. These are heavy topics, but yet these individuals are finding places for connection and joy in their everyday lives. So I know it's possible, and they're doing it in an authentic way. So how do we help distinguish authentic joy from escapism?

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: I love the question because well, I love the question, and it's equally such a complex question because there's subjectivity around it. Right? Because what what could be perceived as escapism to someone may not necessarily be the case for another person. However, just in my own layperson's understanding of coping mechanisms, healing through my own childhood traumas, my sister as well, being social scientist, a pattern I do notice that distinguishes from where I'm perched if somebody is escaping is when they do something that may bring them joy, and then it's fleeting. Then it's like, I need to go on to the next thing to buy.

I need to go on to the next person to consume, because people consume people.

Martina Halloran: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: Right? Like not just sexually, but attention wise. Energy. Energy wise. And I think that one of the things that my sister and I are very clear on in our practices is that joy is something that's always present.

It's just a matter of tuning into it and being present to it enough. And then if things like the percolator and the cups and the bags and the company you're with, those things are meant to enhance the joy that's already present in your life. And I think that unfortunately, when you talk about a consumerist capitalist society that dehumanizes people like the one we're in, and then you couple that with people that come from immigrant backgrounds with abuse, with neglect, legacies of dehumanization for centuries, there's this need to believe that the only way to reduce the angst that's fallen the body is by escaping. Right? This is why when you say Martina, people are like, what is it?

You said something earlier when when you express this idea of just joy that people are, like, cynical around you.

Martina Halloran: Yes.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: It really isn't that simple because some people are in so much angst and pain that they cannot fathom the idea that there's a possibility of reducing that angst if you just sit with yourself long enough and sit with the possibility that you are enough. I know that it seems like I'm going on a tangent, but

Martina Halloran: But you're not. I saw the full circle. I saw the full circle.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: Is that a lot of times people's resistance to embodying joy is rooted in a very low sense of self.

Martina Halloran: It goes back to people feeling they have to earn joy. They have to hit a certain benchmark because then I'm more valuable. If I'm more valuable, then I deserve joy. It's this this idea that I don't deserve joy. I explained it to somebody once in this interesting way, and they go, So the sun's out today.

Everybody has it. Nobody has to earn it. The sun isn't saying, well, you're going to get more. You're going to get less. If we're both standing in the same place, we have the equal amount of sun, right?

It's the same thing. I explained it to somebody who said when people are tapping trees in nature for maple, the maple is always in that tree. It's a matter of if you're tapping into it, and then it flows freely. So it's about tapping into it, into yourself. And what I love about the work that you do, there is this personal responsibility idea that I take away from you that we all can do this, but you have to do the work.

Just like staying in those cycles and being in a pattern of pain or shame or dysfunction. In order to get out of that, you have to do the work. And it's the same thing with joy. You have to be active and activity takes energy. And to your point, if you don't have that rest, if your body is not in a place to receive and be open to joy, it's difficult to access.

And that's, I think, where people push back on me and say, well, you know, your life's so easy, Martina. You know, you have this great job, and you have nice friends, and you have an amazing dad. And it's just like, but wait a minute. Did anybody listen to the first episode of the podcast when I talked about well, I started the podcast and the idea of The Giving Garden because I came from a food insecure household. So I think that people think that I went from, you know, step one to 100 and skipped all of those things.

And it was all really smooth. And I think the idea again, it goes back to everything needs to be smooth. Everything needs to be perfect. Then joy will come. And I think you have to seek joy.

I think you have to cultivate it. It's just not it's there, but you have to invite it in. I love what you said that if there is a low self esteem, if there is I am not enough, that is where people really fail to access the joy that's available to them because those two things work against each other.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: I definitely wanna add something because I I love this conversation because there's three of us, but I'm also thinking about the listeners. How I can easily maybe not your listeners, but hypothetically in this conversation, I can easily see someone listening to this and then saying that if there's hardship in your life or if there's turmoil in your life, that somehow that's a sign that you're not tapped into joy, that you're not doing the work. On the contrary, you just finished saying, you have all these accolades, you have this beautiful life, but you also have aspects of your past and your present that are sorrowful. The same thing with us. The difference is not that hard things don't happen to people that cultivate joy.

Absolutely not. It's that in the lowest moments, we don't forget that we are worthy of joy. Right? And it's not like you know, my sister and I are very visual. We love method acting in our practice as professors.

It's not like we're like like, I'm a be very transparent with y'all. I was just under the covers boohooing like two hours ago You look like before oh, thank you. Before coming on here, and it's not like I was boohooing, I was like, I am so joy filled. I took the moment. Right?

I took the moment to sit with the really hard and sad feelings. And then I walked here, and the sun hit me, and I look radiant, and the walking activated, because it's also about doing the things, doing the work to tap into that joy, movement, right, sunshine, nutrition. I I had a great breakfast. I walked here. The sun hit me.

And I sat here feeling already lighter. So I want listeners to understand that we're not saying that. It's not a guarantee. We're not selling a quick pill. Like, tap into joy, you will never have days of sorrow where you're under the covers crying.

No. But when when you're tapped into joy, for me, it makes the recovery just a little a little more quicker and more efficient. The question you asked earlier about Martina,

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: about moments where you realize, like, oh, I I need community and I need to tap into joy, for me has was, like, a really, really bad breakup over a decade ago. I just took results of the story, like hemming and hawing and crying and not going out and, you know, not eating. And it it got to a point something happened where I just got tired of myself in that state. I told Grisotto, it was around the spring, and and one day I was like, I'm gonna put on a dress. I'm gonna call some friends, and we're gonna go out and that shifted things.

I started to speak up on what I was going through because prior to that breakup, I didn't necessarily share the hardships. It was a very abusive relationship. She didn't, Griselda didn't even know what I was enduring but when I was on the other side of it, I realized, oh, I need to share these things. Mhmm. So so it could leave my body because your body does keep the score but also so that maybe someone else, maybe another woman could like learn that like she doesn't have to necessarily endure that.

And I think the second thing I wanted to add, and it's related to what Grie was sharing, I personally cannot end this conversation without talking about my faith, without talking about God. And faith being such an instrumental part to the cultivation of joy. Because there are moments where, yes, we could show up a little bit elusive and off and like she's bugging. Like, how is she so happy and everything around you seems to be falling apart? Because it could be the opposite.

It could be like, she's so joyous. Nothing's wrong. Oh my god. Everything must be perfect. Or how the hell is she so joyous when everything is falling apart?

For me, one of my deepest prayers that I pray almost every day is for god to give me peace that surpasses understanding.

Martina Halloran: For

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: god to grant me peace that surpasses understanding. Do I then get up from my prayer and just leave it all in the hands of the creator? No. I'm a co creator. I'm a co creator and I make decisions and I move in a way where I can then tap into that joy And I love this.

Martina, you said it about two or three times. It is in the mundane. It is in the little things. It is in thank you for the sun. Thank you for waking me up.

I'm honestly, respectfully. I'm honestly sometimes shocked like so human beings wake up and they just start their day. They don't take a moment to be like, thank you. And I know people have different walks and and different paths and this may not, like, you know, land with certain people because not everyone believes in God. But for me, I have to talk about God because that is such a huge source of where not where the joy comes from, but for my ability to tap into and create joy.

Martina Halloran: It's so individual. Yeah. And if that's your path and if that's the way you tap into it, that is your journey. And when I think about faith, my mom always used to say, faith is the belief in things yet unseen, but they're coming. Right?

And that is really powerful. And if you're in a dark space or if you're in a difficult space, Edwin, the executive producer of the podcast, he told me one time, feel it. Like you were saying you were feeling all this. Your feelings are valid. Just feel it, Martina, but don't hold it.

Let it go from you. Let it out. Feel it. Whether it's good, whether it's bad, whether it's ugly. And that makes a lot of sense.

It's okay to feel, but to stay there is where the slippery slope happens. It's to stay in that ugly place. And then I think what happens is you start to gather people. That misery loves company. Like you said earlier, you start to gather people, and you have this Amen choir of everything's bad.

Everything's a train wreck. It's not gonna get any better. And sometimes it just feels so good to be there. But my wish for people listening is that, yeah, that might feel good, but joy feels even better. It really does.

It really truly does. And people probably are looking for really simple ways to ground themselves and to find a little joy. And I would love for you to share. I know you probably have a million tips and ideas, but something basic that somebody could do on a daily basis that is really kind of easy to do, easy to get their arms around, easy to remember to maybe start tapping into and accessing that joy in themselves.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: The first thing that came through me was stretching, and that's very 44 year old of me. Move your body. Move your body. Your body. We are a channel.

We tap into frequencies and when we're tight and our body's tight, that channel isn't as clear. But really moving your body whether it's stretching, whether it's running, taking a walk, right? I think that it is extremely important on a biological sense. There's so much research that shows the benefits of moving your body, of stretching. There's all this research on like the lower back and like so many people in this country deal with issues like lower back issue, lower back pain.

And stretching and opening that lower back opens your knees, it opens your hips, and it just makes you feel better. We've all been in places where we're tight and we're sore and we're not feeling good. We go to that class, we take that walk, we stretch, and then we just feel better. The headache goes away, the confusion, the stress may dissipate. So to me, it is moving your body in whatever way, if it's available to you in whatever way it feels good to you.

I think that that is very very very important to tapping into joy because then again you open up if you sweat even better that's like a nice detox and honestly, it's almost like it clears your vision to be able to see where their joy is and you can tap into it. So that's for me the one takeaway, like stress.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: I mean, we're so we're such twins because the first thing that came to mind was move your body. And then as as I was sitting here, gratitude came to mind. So Sunday, I'm heading to Tennessee for a week long youth empowerment conference with a group of, like, a 100 rising ninth graders, And we're going to spend the week with them just pouring into them leadership skills, self confidence boosting exercises. And one of the things I almost always do in this work of working with young people is exposing them to the power of gratitude. And it may seem very insignificant, but ride with me, y'all.

I teach a class on medical racism, and one of the articles I teach is called The Hearts and Guts of White People. And it's this white biomedical sociologist that talks about we talk a lot about the way that racism stresses people of color out and it affects our bodies. We don't talk enough about the way that, like, racism within white supremacy benefits white people, and it, like, enhances their health, generally speaking. Right? What's the point?

That she goes into cardiovascular disease among people of color that can be rooted to the stress of poverty, food insecurity, and then she talks about how she goes into the neurobiology of gratitude and the resonance and what it does to the heart. And I'm going to find, I took a screenshot of when she says it, I'm going to send it to you all, because she breaks down biology of gratitude. Biologically, under imaging, it opens up the heart in a way that allows us to then be receptive to creativity, receptive to being present, to seeing, like Niguez said, moments of joy. And then in the New Age world, we have this saying that says, Gratitude shifts your attitude. A wonderful activity, a takeaway.

When I'm feeling shitty, I walk. When I'm walking to work or walking, I start listing every single thing I'm grateful for. Thank you for my eyes. Thank you for my nails. Thank you for blood, thank you for the win, thank you for matches, thank you for nail polish.

I mean, truly, right? And slowly but surely, again this is not a magic pill, you're not gonna feel amazing in two minutes, but I promise you that you will feel lighter than you did before you started the activity.

Martina Halloran: I think our guest said something really powerful, so I wanna speak to the audience because what was just shared is available to all of us. And so much of what we do on The Giving Garden is really about access and to create space and a conversation that really helps people understand, gratitude is accessible to everyone. Joy is accessible to everyone. And it is in those small moments. It's not grand.

It's not big. And the list you ran down, I think about all of the things that I'm grateful for. And it is true. I think that joy can be born out of gratitude. And you're going down your list, you're going down your list, and then you're smiling a little more and you're smiling a little more, and you just have that moment of just contentment.

Sometimes for me, joy comes in this very quiet way where I'm just content. I feel my heart is full. I feel content with my life. I'm not I want a new rug or I want a new couch or I want I want I want I want. The I want just doesn't exist when I have a little bit of that joy and contentment.

And I think that is something that has really seen me through difficult times. Not the big gestures, not the big grand moments, those small moments where the world, if you will, the universe is telling me, it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: And the beauty of doing these things is like a muscle. Let's say you're in a better place in life and you're filled with gratitude and you continue this exercise of gratitude journal. That's a great place to start. So keep it on your nightstand when you wake up, write what you're grateful for or take notes on your phone. It becomes almost like a muscle.

When life gets hard and you're in a difficult moment, you remember to reach for that. You remember to reach for the joy and reach for the gratitude. It doesn't feel like, oh, god, I have to do this. I can't do this. It becomes part of your routine.

Martina Halloran: Those are two really good first steps. Move, if you can, and to the best that you can. Journal, or just simply speak into the universe what you're grateful for. And I think anybody can do that and hopefully change the landscape of their emotional state as they do these things throughout the day. What words of wisdom would you like to leave the audience with about choosing joy as a form of healing and a form of resistance?

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: You are deserving. God.

Martina Halloran: Yes. Yes. Yes.

Dr. Griselda Rodriguez-Solomon: Same thing.

Dr. Miguelina Rodriguez: You no matter what you look like, where you come from, what your family lineage is, how much money you have or you don't have, your degrees, your titles.

Martina Halloran: I don't think we can say anything else. Thank you. Really, thank you so much. And I mean that deeply because from our last conversation to now, I have found such a space for joy in my life. And I hope that we can continue to share that with people in our own lives and people listening.

And it's been such a gift. And I really thank you for that because I don't know that I would have found it on my own. So thank you. I want to extend my deepest gratitude to Doctor. Griselda Rodriguez Solomon and Doctor.

Miguelina Rodriguez, the Brujas of Brooklyn, for sharing their wisdom, their experiences, and their generous hearts with all of us today. Throughout this conversation, we explored an idea that feels especially meaningful during the season of light and abundance. The idea that joy is not something we wait for, but something we actively cultivate. Joy can be found in community. It can be found in ritual.

It can be found in rest. It can be found in laughter, creativity, connection, and the simple act of being fully present in our lives. Most importantly, as our guest reminded us, joy is not the absence of struggle. It is often the very thing that helps us move through it. As you leave today's episode, I invite you to reflect on one question.

What brings you joy? And how might creating more space for that joy strengthen not only your own well-being, but the well-being of those around you? At The Giving Garden, we believe that care grows when it is shared. Every act of kindness, every moment of connection, and every choice to nurture ourselves and our communities helps create a more compassionate world. To learn more about The Brujas of Brooklyn and their incredible work, I encourage you to visit their website, brujasofbrooklyn.com, and follow their journey.

Their teachings offer a powerful reminder that healing, joy, and collective well-being are deeply connected. Thank you for joining us for this episode of The Giving Garden podcast. Until next time, continue caring for yourself, caring for one another, and finding ways to cultivate joy wherever you are. Thank you for listening to The Giving Garden Podcast. I hope you're leaving inspired because even the smallest act can spark positive change.

If you've enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to like, subscribe, and share. The Giving Garden Podcast is produced by Edwin Batista and edited by Steven West. A special thanks to Helen Polisi for her guidance and generosity. The Giving Garden Podcast is brought to you by Dr. Hauschka Skin Care USA, pioneers in natural skincare for over fifty years in home to The Giving Garden Loyalty Program.

Visit drhauschka.com to learn more.